Re: [linrad] Linrd installation...a few comments

["Rein A. Smit" <rein0zn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

   Hello Arie,

   I have put things away for my trip. Have the computer,
   transceiver, etc in the living room when I do this kind of 
   work. Can't find enough room in the shack. So I have to wait
   to give you the results. 
   Yes, I can mute the input but I am quite sure if I do so
   the I do not save any longer. 
   What is the so called IGAIN ( MIC gain? ) or is that in Krecord?
   Anyway I am quite sure that If I turned off the MIC gain in the
   mixer, I did not see any spectrum/waterfall display in Linrad. 

Arie Dogterom wrote:
> 
> Rein,
> I played with kmix and even with that programme I can mute the input ( in my
> case mic) and by controlling "IGain" I can set the recording level. Mic is
> set for recording and if you want to hear what you are recording you of
> course can un-mute the mic channel and set the audio level.

  "You can or must set the mic level with the slider but monitoring with
  the un-mute, fine"  then you mute the mike, I suppose the volume 
  control stays operational, is that right?
  What does it effect, the audio signal amplitude going where?
  
  
> But for linrad you have to mute the mic channel and use the Igain for the
> input recording level. Then linrad runs without the signal bypassing linrad.
  
  Is it possible that linrad is muted perhaps? And if the MIC is off,
  nothing is coming through? But as said, MIC off,  no 
  spectrum/waterfall. 

  It might have been a bias that I acquired against onboard sound
  cards that got me on this "sound card problem route" That would
  be real interesting!

  I made a soort of sketch of the Krecord workings and 
  looking at it, 
  1  There is a straight permanent connection from the input
  terminal on the computer to let's say the capture switch, 
  from the other side of the capture switch to the SA section  Did
  not look at the level indicator.

  2 I wrote down a path from the input through the mike through the 
  master to the output. I guess if it is true as you say why is this
  thing called MIC and not bypass?
 
  3 Another path from the input after the capture I believe, via the
  manual "record select" function to the recording function if turned
on,
  and from the playback function through the PCM "Switch" to te audio 
  I did not check whether this was through the master or not.
  Should not matter, I think.
  
  Bottom line is that this senario would provide the working as you 
  describe it.

  It just shifts the problem to something else I think though not
  any longer the sound card/mixer. I can't explain the waterfall going
  to the MIC in Linda. I would think that the waterfall display should
  go only via the "capture", I am not sure without looking at it.
  But then why don't I get processed audio from Linda If Linda 
  supplies data through the PCM channel, what is a direct path to
  the output.
 
  Answer perhaps Linda is blocked for some reason could that be 
  the case? 
 
  You say you have the MIC turned off, Do you see the wide spectrum
  display working? I thought one could hen select a central frog
  putting cursor somewhere in the spectrum domain, This is working by
  the way, I get a response from this on the passband display I
  would call it. What do I do next to get audio out from Linrad
  provided the PCM in connected to LINRAD ?  
  Are there parameters to be selected at this point to get filtered 
  audio. I have not really looked at it as I assumed as per 
  instructions I should have had audio some form of audio from 
  Lirad. 
     
  73 Rein    
       
   
> 
> note : It is a pity that on my laptop the only input is mic, which is mono.
> Line in is not  accessible from the outside. I probably have to find it
> somewhere on the motherboard.
> 73
> Arie
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rein A. Smit <rein0zn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <linrad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [linrad] Linrd installation...a few comments
> 
> >
> >
> > Hello Arie,
> >
> >
> > Glad to hear from you and thanks.
> >
> > Let me go back, I have the MIC un-muted, connected and hear the signal,
> > see the spectrum on the spectrum analyser display from my source.
> > This is running via "capture"
> > Then I select "record" see the .wax file building.
> > That is all fine, actually I got that with Linrad the first time
> > I installed it. ( source audio in freq/waterfall )
> > Gain, base line adjustment are working, average FFT, parameter is
> > all responding again with just the standard Mandrake installation
> >
> > Then I decide to play back:
> >
> > The stored audio is being played back and I see it on de spectrum
> > display via "capture" if I remember well fine. previously recorded audio
> > but if I do not mute the miKe or turn the receiver output down, I also
> > get the the receiver real time audio in the audio output
> >
> > I assumed that if I would play back that the input channel would be
> > muted by Krecord. Isn't that the logic thing to do?
> >
> > Anyway it does not do that i  y case at least! Then I also  assume
> > that linrad switches in the software between sampling from the input
> > ( mic or what ever ) and output from the processed software.
> > Of course real audio should never end up in the audio output channel.
> > As a matter of fact the sound card should be set up for this routing
> > when you start Linrad and remain like that ( IE NO switching during
> > acquisition / display )
> >
> >    Repeat for Krecord:
> >
> >   input sample -> DAC, ETC ( MIC ON/Off ) LINRAD Processing
> >   ( PCM ON/OFF  )->  DAC, ERT - > output sample -> Volume out.
> >
> > I assumed that Krecord would provided for MIC OFF/ON and PCM ON/OFF
> > as part of the "manual"  record/display selection,
> >
> > Is that true, ie should the be mic channel  be manually turned of
> > or not. I would think not!
> >
> > In linrad their is no playing of the raw input audio.
> > However the audio section needs to be permanently connected
> > to the processed digital audio from LINRAD via PCM and the input needs
> > to be permanently connected to the digitizing part of the sound card
> > but NOT to the audio section ( analog signal )  That is what is failing.
> > but Krecord seems partially do this switching in my case.
> >
> > Have you had time to review the mute/slider functions in your Alsa-
> > mixer vs what I sent you from my alsamixer.
> >
> > Have you any new thoughts about the channel selection issue in
> > your alsamixer vs the lack off that function all together in my
> > version/installed version.
> >
> > I am going to be in Odense next week for a few days and later in
> > Oxford for work. I am not sure I can make it to Holland. Could you
> > email me your phone number direct? I would like to talk to you
> > live for a little bit at least.
> >
> > BTW Last night I could not even get into Matt's domain URL
> >
> > 73 Rein
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Arie Dogterom wrote:
> > >
> > > Rein,
> > > You should mute the input channel and activate capture. Then you will
> see at
> > > krecord level indicator that there is a recording signal while you do
> not
> > > hear it. Then running krecord to play it back( goes via the pcm channel)
> you
> > > should hear the recording. Is that ok, stop krecord and run linrad. Foor
> > > sure you then only will hear linrad processed sounds
> > > 73
> > > Arie
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Rein A. Smit <rein0zn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <linrad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [linrad] Linrd installation...a few comments
> > >
> > > >
> > > >     Hi John
> > > >
> > > >     What is it, you mean by cheaper onboard sound cards?
> > > >     PCI stuff in particular. There have been issues with sound
> > > >     cards all the way back to FFTDSP by Af9Y and plenty of DSP
> > > >     programs being sensitive to the type of sound cards being
> > > >     Some of them wanted 8 bit cards. I type this on a WIN95
> > > >     machine with a 8 bit card installed. FFTDSP, DSPBlaster
> > > >     run fine under DOS.
> > > >
> > > >     I suppose you are talking about the price of the mother board
> > > >     to a certain extent.
> > > >     Though it would be hard to detect any correlation in the final
> > > >     price of the mother board and the sound section.
> > > >     I have quite a few questions about this sound thing here.
> > > >     Just for the fun, I will research the expensive boards and what
> they
> > > >     use for onboard audio systems. (  ASUS et al )
> > > >     I have questioned myself whether there is actually a problem with
> > > >     that sound section. However it does everything in WIN98SE and as
> > > >     a matter of fact in Linux as well .
> > > >     It is also working with this krecord program using .wav files
> > > >     In that mode however the mic/line inputs are not being muted.
> > > >     it is not a matter of cross talk, the mic signal passes through
> > > >     un-attenuated  This krecord is neat, you can listen to signals
> > > >     record them in memory and play them back, in my case I have to
> > > >     turn down the audio from the receiver.
> > > >
> > > >     PA0SE has the same audio section running on a laptop and running
> > > >     Linrad. The real strange point is that the alsamixer that he is
> > > >     using from alsa_utils-0.9.3 has the ability to select channels and
> > > >     allows for path switching/selection and I have nothing of that
> > > >     in my installation, as if the mixer adjusts itself to who knows
> > > >     what! The usual volume controls, MIC,LINE, Capture, PCM and
> > > >     MASTER work OK.
> > > >
> > > >     I have been trying to find useful info and there are hundreds
> > > >     of messages of people asking/reporting about that section but
> > > >     it are always problems about no sound at all, distorted sound,
> > > >     low volume etc. I have nothing of that as long as I do not try
> > > >     to get Linrads output. Also Linrad reports the card properly
> > > >     detected and working when I go to the set-up.
> > > >     Do you have Linrad running? If so perhaps you could run through
> > > >
> > > >     http://www.nitehawk.com/linrad_dat/
> > > >
> > > >     Nothing BEATS information from users with a working setup.
> > > >
> > > >     73 Rein, PA0ZN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "John Harrison, NI1B" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > >    A couple of comments about getting a useful Linrad setup.
> > > > >
> > > > >    MANY of the recent on-board and cheaper internal PCI cards have
> GROSS
> > > > > problems.
> > > > >
> > > > >    In two cases (one on board and one add on card) the card had NO
> > > > > anti-aliasing filter (at all). The card would pick up high frequency
> > > > > signals and noise and fold it over into the lower freqs with NO
> > > > > attenuation !!
> > > > >
> > > > >    In the other PCI case, the card was apparently very slow in
> taking
> > > > > samples so virtually NO TIME was left for Linrad :(
> > > > >
> > > > >    ALL of the ISA cards I have tried have had neither of these
> problems,
> > > > > but try to find a recent motherboard with an ISA slot!!
> > > > >
> > > > >    Anyways just another two technical details to check for when you
> are
> > > > > selecting a sound card.
> > > > >
> > > > >    warm regards,
> > > > >    john, ni1b
> > > >
> >


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