---------  CONTINUED  ---------

 
    Part 3



   
Thanks again Roger!

As I stated to Rein in a private mail, with Linux it seems
like we are living in an Aquarium: we see that there is much
on the other side of the glass, but we are not able to reach
it (I think that Mike/W5UC will like this)... [no worries, the
problem is mainly over here: Zaba's ignorance... only 3 years].

Despite reinstalling your first W3SZ-Knoppix.iso onto the HD,
I did not get 'Linrad' running from there (hopefully there
have been no intermediate versions of the *.iso). It complains
about the missing ~linrad-01.33 directory and continues loading
all of the Knoppix graphics. The only positive difference this
time is that all of the Network-stuff works. I did the apt-get
update/upgrade and got 239 new packages in 258 MB downloads
(this all will be ready and waiting for us on your second CD).

Actually I did 'sudo knoppix-installer' from the CD, and did
not take a "Beginner"-configuration, but the option: "just as
on the CD". This means no login when starting Linux (safety!).

During boot from HD it lists about 20 errors relating to mkdir
mentioning UNIONFS and missing ~linrad01.33 directories or files.

The /home/knoppix directory does not hold linrad-01.33 ...
it only shows ('ls'):  Desktop  none  tmp

The prompt looks like:  root@1[knoppix]#

'updatedb' and 'locate' yields the same as described (below)
during the first install to HD... 'locate' also fails to find
anything relating to an installed SVGALIB....

So there is clearly something missing. There is plenty of
KNOPPIX-software on the HD... 'df' lists 2.3 GB of KNOPPIX.
A bit worrying is the listing of 'df' showing the following:

/dev/hda7            (mounted as /)
/dev/root.old        (mounted as /initrd)

Wonder if this  root.old  is creating any confusion...?


All of the above is relating only to one of the many PC's.

The Live_CD is meant for a quick introduction to 'Linrad'
in real-world circumstances. Would I miss anything if I do
it the old way: i.e. install pure Knoppix and add the two:
SVGALIB 1.9.21 and Linrad-01.33 as usual? The only difference
I notice is the far better screen resolution of the Live_CD
Linrad's upon opening the application first time after boot.
Setting screen parameters (S) does not give me a choice of
the finer resolutions (beyond 1024x768) usually with the
private installs of SVGALIB and 'Linrad'.

                            73, "Zaba" OH1ZAA/2


P.S. I noticed the knoppix.img and knoppix.sh files on the
     FAT-drive (C:\ in Windows); so "config-storage" works.



At 13:21 8.5.2005 -0400, W3SZ wrote:

> Hi, Zaba, and all,
>
> First let me say that it turns out that the download bandwidth from Rein's
> site has become so high due to the Knoppix CD that it will cost him
> considerable funds just for what has already been downloaded in the past
> few days.  And the potential cost is open-ended
>
>
> So, because of the cost to Rein of further downloads, I am removing the
> Knoppix.iso from his website.  We cannot ask him to bear those costs.
> Several of us including Rein are looking for alternative sites.  I have
> already spent 4 hours this AM in this search.  If you have any thoughts,
> please let me know.  I had thought there would be a whole bunch of sites
> whose business model was "post here for free downloading, and give us the
> right to send out CD's to those who don't want to/can't download, at the
> price of our choosing" but I haven't found any of those.  They would be
> perfect for our purposes if they existed and had reasonable bandwidth and
> were free of adware, spyware, etc.  I thought mixonix or SwiftCD would fit
> the bill, but they don't appear to.
>
> Please don't start downloading the KnoppixCD from Rein's site now, as you
> will find yourself cutoff in the midst of a download when it disappears
> shortly.
>
> Now to answer Zaba's excellent questions:
>
>
> On Sun, 08 May 2005 05:24:16 -0400, 'Zaba' OH1ZAA  wrote:
>
>>
>> Sir Roger,
>>
>> Great to hear the intermediate report of your "backgrounding"
>> for the next issue of the W3SZ-Linrad_Knoppix-Live_CD. Stand-
>> alone use of the Live_CD is of course the main objective in
>> order to ensure a quick access to "Linrad" for a wide public.
>>
>> The "non-invasive" storage of a few small configuration files
>> onto any DOS/Win partitions would be desirable (referring to
>> W5UC's questions) and according to the Knoppix 3.8 approach.
>
>
> This is already set up and working as a part of the standard Knoppix
> distribution, which I didn't change.  Knoppix will put image files in the
> Windows partition that will not damage anything.  I've outlined it before,
> but here it is again.  When in graphics mode, click on the Fat Penguin.
> Then click "Configure".  THen click "Create a persistent KNOPPIX disk
> image".  Then select your Windows partition [or a linux or other partition
> if you wish] and specifiy the image size.  100MB is standard, I made it
> 200 MB for no particular reason.  To save the configuration, again click
> on the Fat Penguin.  Then click "Configure".  THen click "Save KNOPPIX
> Configuration" and agian you will be presented with a list of disk
> partitions.  Select one.  Don't save with a password, or you will hate
> yourself everytime you have to type it in on booting.
>
> ALL of this works perfectly here, so I don't know what to do if there are
> problems.
>
>
>>
>> Of secondary importance is the transfer of the Live_CD to the
>> hard disk. I noticed a few more things in the system after the
>> transfer. Using your documentation with the first release I was
>> finally able to start 'Linrad' from the /UNIONFS directory on
>> the CD. The problem was that 'locate' did not indicate the
>> /UNIONFS directory explicitly and therefore I could not find
>> the files. However, after the ('knoppix-installer') transfer
>> to the hard disk 'locate' yields only /root/linrad-01.33 and
>> there are only two files in that directory; 'locate' result:
>>
>> /etc/reS.d/S80w3szlinrad
>> /root/linrad-01.33
>> /root/linrad-01.33/linboot.img
>> /root/linrad-01.33/vmlinuz
>>
>> With more Linux-experience I could maybe use these for starting
>> up 'Linrad'? I have not tried to install the CD after booting
>> from HD, to try to start 'Linrad from there, but that is a bit
>> contradictory to the idea of an exclusive HD-install, anyway.
>
>
> When in the 'Live CD' mode, having booted from CD, the important files are
> as follows:
>
> libvga.config that you modify/have modified is in:
> /etc/vga and
> /UNIONFS/etc/vga
> I believe this is a redundant file naming scheme peculiar to the 'Live'
> installation
>
> The original libvga.config file is in
> /KNOPPIX/etc/vga
> This is not alterable.
>
> The Linrad files are in
> /UNIONFS/root/linrad-01.33
>
> The directory /KNOPPIX/root/linrad-01.33 does NOT contain the Linrad files.
>
>
> When one is using the Knoppix installation without the CD, having
> installed it on the hard drive, the default directory on entering terminal
> mode is displayed as [~].  This is actually /home/knoppix.  NOTE THAT THE
> DIRECTORY STRUCTURE WITH THE HARD DRIVE INSTALLATION IS NOT THE SAME AS ON
> THE LIVE CD.  Failure to recognize this will lead to unending confusion.
> Unless you are a developer you should stick to one or the other; Live CD
> or HD install; not flip/flop between the two.  I have found NOTHING that
> can be done with Live CD that can't be done with the hard drive
> installation.  On the other hand, there are restrictions in the Live CD
> mode that are absent in a permanent hard drive installation.
>
> When in permanent hard drive installation mode, the default /home/knoppix
> directory contains:
> Desktop
> S80w3szlinrad and possible S80w3szlinrad modified [depending on CD version
> downloaded]
> linradstart
> none
> svgalib-1.9.21 [dir]
> lin
> linrad-01.33 [dir]
> oss [dir]
> tmp
>
> YOU SHOULD NOT BE MAKING A PERMANENT HARD DRIVE INSTALLATION unless you
> are prepared to spend a lot of time with Linux, and are willing to risk
> damage to the other operating systems on your drives if you make an error.
>
> /root contains image files for the Live CD, not the file folders found in
> /UNIONFS in the Live CD installation.
>
>>
>> Your first Live_CD version allows full usage of the Internet
>> services in graphics mode, but after the transfer to hard disk,
>> there is no detection any network cards (either HomePNA eth0
>> or Ethernet eth1); the fat penguin informs of no detectable
>> hardware for Network configuration.
>
>
> I do not know what happened to you here.  My hard drive installation had
> all of the network capability that I had with Live CD; things work
> perfectly.  Try going to Live CD and saving disk image and configuration
> as noted above, and then go into hard drive and see if things work.
>
> Or, go into live CD and make sure the network is working properly and then
> save image and configuration files as above, and then reinstall the hard
> disk version.
>
>
>>
>> Otherwise I got rid of the HomePNA startup problem through the
>> purchase of an A-link HomePNA-Ethernet converter, so that the
>> network looks as if it were a genuine 100 Mbit/s Ethernet. It
>> means that the PC needs to have an Ethernet port, which is
>> usually immediately recognized by the 2.6.x -kernels. However,
>> this will be only beneficial after the transfer of the W3SZ_
>> Live_CD will include all network features of Knoppix 3.8.1
>
>
> I didn't remove any of the network features.  Everything works here, and I
> am at a loss to explain why they don't work there, Zaba.
>
> 73,
>
> Roger
> W3SZ
>
> -- 
> Roger Rehr
> W3SZ
> http://www.qsl.net/w3sz

May 09 2005

Hi, Zaba,

Try running Linrad from the Live CD after you have installed the HD  version.  It may put the files onto the disk.

It is also possible that a directory is missing on the HD.  Look carefully  at the error messages when you boot both from the HD and with Live CD, and  if this is the case, create the necessary directory.

There should be no problem downloading and installing svgalib and Linrad  in the usual fashion from the HD version.

Maybe one of the Linux experts knows about the assignment of /root.old as  /initrd.  That seems concerning to me...

73,

ROger
W3SZ

On Mon, 09 May 2005 04:20:05 -0400, 'Zaba' OH1ZAA  wrote:

>
> Thanks again Roger!
>
> As I stated to Rein in a private mail, with Linux it seems
> like we are living in an Aquarium: we see that there is much
> on the other side of the glass, but we are not able to reach
> it (I think that Mike/W5UC will like this)... [no worries, the
> problem is mainly over here: Zaba's ignorance... only 3 years].
>
> Despite reinstalling your first W3SZ-Knoppix.iso onto the HD,
> I did not get 'Linrad' running from there (hopefully there
> have been no intermediate versions of the *.iso). It complains
> about the missing ~linrad-01.33 directory and continues loading
> all of the Knoppix graphics. The only positive difference this
> time is that all of the Network-stuff works. I did the apt-get
> update/upgrade and got 239 new packages in 258 MB downloads
> (this all will be ready and waiting for us on your second CD).
>
> Actually I did 'sudo knoppix-installer' from the CD, and did
> not take a "Beginner"-configuration, but the option: "just as
> on the CD". This means no login when starting Linux (safety!).
>
> During boot from HD it lists about 20 errors relating to mkdir
> mentioning UNIONFS and missing ~linrad01.33 directories or files.
>
> The /home/knoppix directory does not hold linrad-01.33 ...
> it only shows ('ls'):  Desktop  none  tmp
>
> The prompt looks like:  root@1[knoppix]#
>
> 'updatedb' and 'locate' yields the same as described (below)
> during the first install to HD... 'locate' also fails to find
> anything relating to an installed SVGALIB....
>
> So there is clearly something missing. There is plenty of
> KNOPPIX-software on the HD... 'df' lists 2.3 GB of KNOPPIX.
> A bit worrying is the listing of 'df' showing the following:
>
> /dev/hda7            (mounted as /)
> /dev/root.old        (mounted as /initrd)
>
> Wonder if this  root.old  is creating any confusion...?
>
>
> All of the above is relating only to one of the many PC's.
>
> The Live_CD is meant for a quick introduction to 'Linrad'
> in real-world circumstances. Would I miss anything if I do
> it the old way: i.e. install pure Knoppix and add the two:
> SVGALIB 1.9.21 and Linrad-01.33 as usual? The only difference
> I notice is the far better screen resolution of the Live_CD
> Linrad's upon opening the application first time after boot.
> Setting screen parameters (S) does not give me a choice of
> the finer resolutions (beyond 1024x768) usually with the
> private installs of SVGALIB and 'Linrad'.
>
>                              73, "Zaba" OH1ZAA/2
>
>
> P.S. I noticed the knoppix.img and knoppix.sh files on the
>       FAT-drive (C:\ in Windows); so "config-storage" works.

-- 
Roger Rehr
W3SZ
http://www.qsl.net/w3sz


Hi Zaba,


>> I have now understood that the CPU is not determining
>> the delay in 'Linrad', but rather: the slower the CPU,
>> the higher its relative usage, until it reaches 100%..
>> Then the application probably "collapses"... a rare
>> occurrence with today's fast processors.

No, it has a graceful degradation in that screen updates
deteriorate first:-)


>> All of the integrated audio on several motherboards
>> "propose" a sample rate choice up to 48000, except the
>> Abit IC7 (proposing choices up to 192000). It does not
>> mean that one can build an I/Q-receiver with successful
>> utilization of the full bandwidth. Actually the IC7 is
>> the worst quality board (compared to all others here)
>> regarding the operation of the integrated audio circuit
>> (at least as far as the microphone input is concerned).

????
The microphone input is always useless because of the high
noise level.............
Why do you not think one could build a 192 kHz I/Q receiver?


>> For example under Skype VoIP-communications there is a
>> strong tapping noise on the outgoing audio, and under
>> 'Linrad' the input spectrum shows wide noise bands at
>> 7 kHz and 41 kHz on the frequency spectrum when using
>> 48000 sampling rate (when no input signals are fed).

Oooh! When there is no input at all, some A/D converters
show nasty things. You have to supply a noise floor from
your tower-mounted preamplifier (or simulate) to get an 
idea about the real performance and it is always surprisingly 
good in my experience:-)

I am pretty sure I wrote about this somewhere but I failed 
to locate the page. The ugly-looking noise-bands disappear 
if you send a signal above the highest frequency into the 
soundcard for example. Sampling at 192 kHz you might send 
150kHz into the card for example. That would remove the
noise bands without any adverse effects except for a small
loss in the largest tolerable signal level - the peak
amplitude has to stay within the the available bits for
the sampling at perhaps 10 MHz.
Adding anything is silly of course since preamplifier noise 
will be sufficient to remove the noise bands:-)


>> All of this may be better on the line input (however
>> not tested). Also another main power supply should be
>> tried to ensure that all MB-voltages have been clean.

.
.

>> When feeding audio to the IC7 input, it was clearly seen
>> that the circuitry was not designed for these high rates
>> as the input spectrum showed multiple aliased responses,
>> and the baseline level dropped off above 24 kHz separation
>> form the center frequency. Also I noticed that the 'Linrad'
>> frequency scale of the waterfall behaves like an old car's
>> mileage meter, showing 100 000 as 00 000 (actually just 0).
>> So the parameter needs an allocation for one more figure
>> on the right end of the scale: e.g. 140000 Hz now 40000 Hz.
>> Initially this was a little confusing, but the experiment
>> yielded this improvement suggestion for the user-interface.

I am sorry to learn that the IC7 is properly designed for audio.
Sampling is done at perhaps 10 MHz but the digital filter
inside the chip limits the bandwidth to about 24 kHz even when
you ask to get the output bit stream at 192 kHz. This means that
some extra silicon is used to supply different anti-aliasing 
filters for different output rates - a luxury that Delta44 
and Lynx Two do not have:-)


The scale shows only tens of kHz. When the frequency you set
for the WSE unit is 144125000 Hz, you will see only the
last 5 digits. The full frequency information is shown in the
baseband graph.


>> As such all these experiments have again derailed me from
>> the goal to get some form of real world reception ability.
>> Thus it is about time to link up some of the analog stuff
>> in front of the sound inputs. That is actually the best
>> incentive to learn about the use and optimization of the
>> various parameters. The impulse generator for the quick
>> calibration of the I/Q-channels (and the smart blanker)
>> is actually not too complicated, but here its construction
>> has been delayed already for years, due to all the other
>> "interesting" 'Linrad' experiments and software challenges.

With the WSE converters you could calibrate with almost any
pulse generator. Feed it through a 6 dB pad into the RX2500 
unit:-) Calibration will be slightly incorrect if the
signal source deviates much from 50 ohms.

As an alternative you might feed the pulse generator into 
the RX10700 input. 


>> A key for quick successful results would be an "approach
>> guidebook" that should be fairly strictly followed. The
>> ongoing Live_CD development by Roger/W3SZ will certainly
>> speed up the start-up time of new candidates (by 10 dB).

Or 15 dB;-)

73

Leif

Hello, Zaba et al,

This has been a very full day.  I can't remember if it was posted that Leif has graciously 
found room for the Knoppix CD iso file on the sm5bsz.com server.

I am busy reworking / shrinking / 'fixing' the  iso before uploading it to sm5bsz.com.

I think I found the answer I think to Zaba's 'disappearing directory' problem, and why I 
see files and directories in the root directory here that Zaba says he doesn't see.  A 
quote from somewhere in 'Knoppix-ville' that I ran across this evening:

"Knoppix automatically overwrites the directory /home/knoppix with /etc/skel during boot".

So I think that the files that I had carefully placed in /root for users-san ended up 
in /home/knoppix/root with the Knoppix-Live CD boot process, and then got overwritten.  

The delay in upload for the iso file is caused by my trying an alternate strategy, making 
an iso file and then a CD with it, trying it, and then going back for round 2 etc to correct 
my mistakes.  It takes about an hour per cycle, and I just broke free to start this after 10 pm, 
so the uploaded iso may not appear before sometime late tomorrow.  I will announce when it is 
uploaded.

I have decided I need yet another computer, to contain ONLY an experimental, deletable Knoppix 
hard-disk installed system, to look for these bugs which don't appear if the testing is on the 
system with the permanent reference install.  I will see if any of wife/children can give up their 
computer for this noble purpose [only kidding, I am not that stupid  ;)   ].

73, all with my apologies for the delay...

  

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